Gentle Leader XIV: "'Channels' Feels More Ethereal and Sullen, Whereas This New Album Is Darker and Sharper. There's Much More Urgency and Anxiety Flowing Through This Record"

Gentle Leader XIV (jen-tul lee-der ex-ivy) is a post-punk synth-pop band from the ends of Ohio. The Cincinnati-Cleveland trio is comprised of long-time scene vets Jeffrey Tucholski, Maria Jenkins, and Matt Hallaran. Forming in 2016, the group released their debut LP Channels in 2018. Now seven years later, the band returns with its follow-up, Joke in the Shadow, a damaged 21st century pop record that’s full of grim reality and sees the group shift from their ethereal dream pop towards a darker, bleaker, and more industrial bend in the burning river of their collective consciousness.

Where did you all grow up and what was the local scene like? What sort of

records or books or magazines would we find if we would travel back in time in your

teenage room?

Jeff Tucholski: Matt [Hallaran] and I are from the same neighborhood in Cleveland and have known each other for 30 years?!? I have no concept of when we met, we were both just sort of around the with our crew of friends in the late '90s and it felt like everyone knew each

other, played in crummy garage bands etc. I played in the hot pop punk band at 16 and

my bandmates were a couple years older. Matt is their age so that’s how we would have

originally crossed paths. Matt had much better taste in music than me at that time and

he turned me onto the scummy/weirdo side of punk, ruined me [laughs]. We had a heavy

skateboarding scene so our crew mostly listened to punk and/or ska. I got turned onto a

lot of music from skate videos. Magazines, for me probably Thrasher, TransWorld,

GamePro maybe? Needed the cheat codes.

Maria Jenkins: I'm from the Cincinnati area and grew up in the woods. There was no scene (that I knew of) and the internet was nascent. I listened to anything I could get a hold of. I had

a couple of Ramones and Iggy Pop CDs. My friend's older brother had Nick Cave and

the Bad Seeds Murder Ballads, so we'd listen to that. I frequently tuned into the local

college radio station and remember winning tickets to see Guided by Voices. Everyone

was drinking so much beer at the show and I had the big black "X" mark on my underage

hand. Things got better in college.

For readers unfamiliar, tell us about the origins of Gentle Leader XIV. How has it

evolved over the years?

JT: Maria and I met at Kent State in the early 2000s, fell in love, started a synth punk

band, moved to Chicago, broke up, but stayed friends. We started a new band together

in the early 2010s called Floral Wreaths, which was essentially the precursor to Gentle

Leader XIV. Maria and I were both doing our separate bands as well at that point

(Maria, Hollows on Trouble in Mind) and (Jeff, Running on Castle Face Records). At some point in this timeline Maria and I got back together and we got married. We transitioned a couple of the songs we had written for Floral Wreaths as rock arrangements and broke them

down into a slower, ethereal, synth heavy form with electronic drums. That sort of

sparked the sonic trajectory and the beginning of Gentle Leader XIV. We started playing

together with our friends Lisa and Chris. That was the original line up of the band, Maria

on keys, myself on guitar, Lisa bass, and Chris on analog synths. After recording

Channels, Chris stepped away from the band and we kept playing with Lisa, doing

some touring around the Midwest and Canada. We were joined briefly by our friend

Luca on live drums before the pandemic hit. Maria and I moved to Cincinnati at the end

of 2020 for work and family considerations. With Matt now being close somewhat close in Cleveland, I floated the idea that we finally try to put a band together since things had winded down with his band (Glass Traps) and we'd never had a chance to play together (he been in Oakland, Austin, back to Cleveland etc). He suggested resurrecting Gentle Leader XIV, which wasn’t something Maria and I had previously considered. Matt encouraged us to go for it, and he started to come down and practice songs off the first record. We slowly began to write new songs with Matt on synth and bass. We started playing shows back and forth in Cincinnati and Cleveland and assembling what would eventually become this new album Joke in the Shadow.

What can you tell me about your upcoming album Joke In The Shadow and what

insight can you share about how it all came together in Louisville, KY?

JT: It was recorded in Louisville at the home studio of Ryan Patterson (Fotocrime,

Coliseum) over the course of a couple weekends in early '24. We had played with

Fotocrime in Cleveland when they were on tour with our friends in Pop. 1280. Ryan had

been posting about recording the most recent Fotocrime record and I thought the

production of that record was excellent. We had been scratching our heads a bit on who

to record with and where, so I actually cold called him to see if wanted to record us. He

hadn’t publicly indicated he would record projects that weren’t his own, so it was pretty

exciting he got on board with it. The record itself is pretty, sad, heavy, gnarly, scary thoughts, the culmination of a few years of incremental work. It's a pop record for weirdos, or a weird record for pop heads. There's light and dark to it which shift back and forth as it spins through.

What were some of the highlights when you were putting together this album? 

JT: The House of Foto studio is intimate, tons of great gear, tape delays, and Soviet

synths galore! We had a ball with it, incorporating some of those elements into the

tracks. Ryan even dropped some sax on a couple. We knew the songs were strong

going into it, but always had some degree of fear that the end result wouldn’t capture what we had envisioned for it. We loved working with Ryan and fed off each other’s

energy in the sessions. The recordings exceeded our expectations.

MJ: Ditto what Jeff said, but add in some vegan bahn mi sandwiches.

How would you compare this album to 2018's debut LP Channels?

JT: Channels feels more ethereal and sullen, whereas this new album is darker and sharper.

There's much more urgency and anxiety flowing through this record. Channels was

recorded direct to tape by Cooper Crain (Cave, Bitchin' Bajas) so there is a bit of a

warmer tone to it, with plate reverb on the vocals and minimal use of stereo. For Joke,

we went all in on stereo and the possibilities for manipulation in tracking straight to

digital. Ultimately no one is handing out awards for recording to tape; both have their

advantages and drawbacks. The final product and working with people we trust is the

only thing we cared about in both instances. From a continuity standpoint, both records were mastered by Mikey Young (Total Control).

What's the story behind the cover art?

MJ: The cover art features different freshwater mussels that can be found throughout

Ohio. Some are endangered but all are declining. They’re small, strange creatures that

are easy to overlook, but play an important role in water and ecosystem health. I

combined them with formal elements evoking early 20th century modernism. In my mind,

it represents a future that I want to see, where we celebrate the nature that is inherently

a part of us, instead of a hierarchical world view that would destroy it for temporary

economic gain. The back cover represents the tragedy of that short-sighted exploitative

thinking, as freshwater mussels were pulled from waterways to make buttons for coats,

contributing to their decline.

How do you usually approach songwriting? Does improvisation have any role?

JT: Having electronic drums, we generally start with some structure. Often times it will

be based off random beats I've created in Logic or a riff I've cooked up, a key lead

Maria has written, a synth part Matt has worked on, etc. We'll often fill it out from there

playing through it with everyone chiming in and crafting the instrumentation. Maria is the

primary melody writer and lyricist, so she'll often work on those aspects solo to bring

back to Matt and I to fill out sonically. Sometimes things fall into place quickly, other

times you try and fail or tread water. We tend to really slow cook the songs and try to

craft something of value. We hold ourselves to a high standard when it comes to

songwriting, tone, and vibe. It’s not always the most enjoyable process, but it's

rewarding when you hit on something and begin to feel its potential and the emotions it

evokes.

What can you tell me about the opening cut "Pig Dream"? 

MJ: It may not sound like it, but this might be the darkest song I've ever written. It

was coming from a place of hopelessness, for sure. As a woman and caregiver living

through late stage capitalism, it can feel like you keep giving and giving with no end in

sight, with all of your body, guts and labor going to something or someone that couldn’t

care less about you, all adding up to nothing. I wouldn’t describe this as my world view,

but as a passing feeling that I felt like was worth exploring. See "Fawning" for a more

hopeful take.

How did "Fawning" come together?

JT: Maria began to write this one in 2018 just after Channels was recorded. We had

been working it out with Luca on drums so this one has more of a live feel to it. We

always knew it was a strong song with a lot potential so we kept it in our back pocket

and slowly chipped away at it until resurrecting it.

MJ: It was inspired by feminist sci-fi and speculative fiction. I'm a big fan of

authors like Octavia Butler and Ursula LeGuin. What kind of futures can I, or we,

imagine outside of the ones we feel forced into? This song is an exploration of that. For

me, it's spacey, it's celebratory, and it’s about the persistence that something new can

come into existence.

What insight can you share on "Reverser"?

JT: I've been playing this guitar riff for about 15 years looking to turn it into something

and nothing ever stuck until it landed with this song. It came about quickly in the lead up

to recording but ended up sounding just as polished as some of the songs we worked

on for years, you never know until it happens.

MJ: Yeah, this one just kind of flowed from Jeff's riff and the Suicide-esque bass

sequence that Matt created. Lyrically, it's kind of a revenge fantasy.

What inspired "Bomp Pop"?

JT: Matt was toying with bottle rocket sound and we wound up making a bizarre disco

punk track? It's like Iggy Funhouse down in the lab hanging with Dracula and his crew

but with Crass lyrics? We got loose on this one and it shows, unhinged. A take on the

cultural diffusion of American populism and fascism from the sunshine state to your

front door.

What's the story behind the closing cut "Consequences"? 

JT: We had been listening to Portishead's Third leading up to recording and this track

sort of took on some of that vibe. Sonically, it's a noir industrial nightmare, with

elements of Metal Machine Music mixed in, treading deep into the noise strategically

placed for maximum effect.

MJ: I think I'm experiencing a lot of ecological grief. Writing this now, I’m thinking of

the Aldo Leopold quote that to know and love nature is to live in a “world of wounds.” In

Consequences, this grief is coming through in the form of anger and frustration. The

admonishment in the song is as much for myself as it is for anyone else; collectively, we

are failing.

Aside from the new album, what are some future plans for Gentle Leader XIV? Do

you plan to tour or play some shows around the new release? 

JT: A release show is in the works at Feel It HQ, some Cleveland action this summer

and we are hoping to make it back to Chicago this year and go from there. Time to start

writing again...

Any advice or last words you'd like to share with our readers?

JT: When life hands you lemons, make a damaged post-punk record full of sorrow and

pop hooks.

Joke in the Shadow is out April 18th on Feel It Records.